Curse

Ristaron · Aug 22, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Step 1: Remove exhaustion from spells it has no business being on.
Step 2: Make Elemental Attunement, Air Attunement, Fire Attunement, Earth Attunement, and Water Attunement skills.
Step 3: Decrease cast times on the wards, some of the spells, and attunements.
Step 4: Rework Meteor Shower so it hits in the first second rather than the third.
Step 5: Never, ever touch them again, otherwise the whole thing starts over again.

0mar · Aug 22, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

rits(channeling) need even more help than eles is all i can say.

Rits, in general, need a huge overhaul. Right now, they can do one thing and one thing only, Ritual Lord spirit spam. Restoration isn't good enough to replace a monk, channeling is utter garbage. Ritual Lord is such an incredible elite (it's not even an enchantment) that it eschews all other elites for ritualists.

Ristaron · Aug 22, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Rits have some excellent spike skills which rival (and on occasion outdo) elementalist spike skills. But this thread isn't about Ritualists, now is it?

black_mamba · Aug 22, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

Rits, in general, need a huge overhaul. Right now, they can do one thing and one thing only, Ritual Lord spirit spam. Restoration isn't good enough to replace a monk, channeling is utter garbage. Ritual Lord is such an incredible elite (it's not even an enchantment) that it eschews all other elites for ritualists.

i dont know about you but my rit can solo UW

, i think that team 2 did a great job on making the rit personally.

Arcador · Aug 22, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Exhaustion is part of the elementalist, I suggest removing it only on certain spells like - Mind freeze, Mind shock and Mind burn.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 22, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

All ele elites suck due to their exhaustion effect (except Ether prodigy):

Mind X
Lightning surge (and no armor penetration? haha)
Double dragon (use Star burst instead, better recharge)
Energy boon
Ride the Lightning (better use deaths charge)

Who uses them? do they really exist?

Mind X should deal total damage and the extra effect regardless to the energy you have and do not cause exhaustion in order to become attractive. I have never seen someone running them in PvE... well just Mind burn once, a guildie willing to test his new toy, and then he exhausted his whole energy, 90. We all had a nice soirée waiting for his energy to recover. He has never used MB again

freekedoutfish · Aug 22, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

With the introduction of Nightfall and specifically the Dervish, Anet needs to fix some of the issues that Elementalist have when it is released or the Elementalist will be none played profession ever again.

Issue #1 - Skill recharge needs to be lowered on many skills

Issue #2 - Casting times need to be lowered on some skills as well

Issue #3 - Aftercast on PBAoE spells needs to be removed

Issue #4 - Casting cost on some skills also need to be lowered to put them more in line with their effect

Issue #5 - Exhaustion should be removed from some of the skills that it is currently on, really, what where they thinking

If Anet was to do something about these areas that have been needing to be addressed, then the Elementalist would still be a viable primary profession to choose.

My main char is an elemental, with grandmaster explorer on both tyria and cantha and protector on both. So I know my skills and I know what it can and cant do.

Ive started thinking a good new skill for an elemental would be a creature skill.

Not a minion or a pet.

But the ability to summon a Titan or varied element. Ice, fire, earth and air.

And all the obvious skills to heal them and/or res an ooba-titan. But you could only get them AFTER you complete the titan quests in tyria.

That would also incourage people to actually do the titan quests.

But elemental skills at the minute are just stupid.

We do have ALOT of good skills, but most of them have side-effects or take AGES to recharge or reqire stupid amounts of energy.

BURING SPEED for example. I thought, great, a running skill at last. I used it for ages and then realised... hang on... its killing me. No wonder my health is going down.

And most of the new skills that were added in factions cause creatures to scatter and are virtually identical to one another.

Ira Blinks · Aug 22, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

i saw quiet a few ideas around exhaustion. I think the best one was to counter exhaustion with ES. Something like reduce exhaustion from spells by one point for each two points in ES, so at 12 ES single exhaustion spell would only exhaust 4 points of energy instead of 10.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 22, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

i saw quiet a few ideas around exhaustion. I think the best one was to counter exhaustion with ES. Something like reduce exhaustion from spells by one point for each two points in ES, so at 12 ES single exhaustion spell would only exhaust 4 points of energy instead of 10.

Excellent idea!

Just quoting:

Mysticism (PRIMARY DERVISH ATTRIBUTE)
Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 3 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 2 ranks of Mysticism.

For balance 1 point reduced from exhaustion every 2 ranks of ES would be great. Cmon ANET, what ele does not run a exhaustion skill? We are the only profession with exhaustion skills, please make us " exhaustion proof "

Hyaon · Aug 22, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Thinking about it now [oh god it hurts!] I am suprised eles can't summon elementals which we see in game like Ice Golems. My ele focuses on damage so much, if something hits him he is most likely going to die/run away nearly dead. Would be nice to have a tank working for us,

Fire Elemental - Fire Damage, fast melee speed, very prone to water attacks, has Spell Inferno.

Ice Elemental - Cold Damage, medium melee speed, very prone to fire attacks, has Spell Blurred Vision.

Lightning Elemental - Shocking Damage, very fast melee speed, has Spell Lightening Touch.

Earth Elemental - Earth Damage, slow in melee speed, brilliant defence to melee/elemental, able to cast Spell ward against foes.

Energy Wisp - Unable to attack, merely floats around following you, giving you an extra 3 energy per 3 ranks in Energy Storage.

There would be a mininum of 10 skill points in either element to be allowed to summon one these. Energy Wisp would be 8. Recharge of either 4 elemental skills would be 1 minute 30 seconds, Energy Wisp would be 45 seconds.

*Shrug*

If anyone suggested this already sorry!

Spura · Aug 22, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

I apologise beforehand for repeating myself over and over again, but here is my proposal that echoes SpeedyKQ's:

Replace the 3 extra energy points per rank granted by Energy storage and have instead "Elemental wisdom" with an extra 3-5% damage OR armor penetration per rank when using elemental spells.

So you play gvg and hear a call that base is under attack. There is an assassin killing your NPCs. Thankfully you have 15 ES. With 5% armor penetration per rank this would be 75% armor penetration. Assassin attacks you, you blind him and hit with inferno for 297 damage followed by fireball for .... etc. You really can't expect them to raise damage across the board like that. You want to deal crap loads damage and be able to keep people permablind perhaps snared. Especially giving spells armor penetration would be a stupid idea, as the armor is practically the only protection against elementalist damage. That would be like giving warriors 3% less chance of target block or evade per rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

A Lightning Orb at 16 Air magic deals 106 dmg and has 25% armor penetration. Against Jade armor deals 92 dmg (not bad i must confess) BUT against a Mursaat boss it deals only 38 damage: the same amount of damage a Vampiric Gaze deals with only 7 ranks on blood.

You intentionally bring up endgame pve bosses up all the time. Well you can stop lobbying. ANet will NOT balance ele on bosses. In fact other classes with damage affected by armor don't do any damage either. Assassin hits for 3 dmg on those lvl 28 bosses. As you said you still do 92 dmg on non-boss jade armor. Try using ranger or assassin against jade armor. No damage at all, no bleed or poison possible.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 22, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

You intentionally bring up endgame pve bosses up all the time. Well you can stop lobbying. ANet will NOT balance ele on bosses. In fact other classes with damage affected by armor don't do any damage either. Assassin hits for 3 dmg on those lvl 28 bosses. As you said you still do 92 dmg on non-boss jade armor. Try using ranger or assassin against jade armor. No damage at all, no bleed or poison possible.

I thought the point was that warrior, ranger, necro, assassin, etc all did damage that either ignored armor or was able to be stacked on top of the damage that they already do (which is reduced by armor). Ele's don't have any damage stacking skills, really, and they only have a couple armor ignoring skills. Seems to me they are less effective against anything with more armor than practically any other class.

Ristaron · Aug 22, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Spura's reasoning in both instances is sound and true. Energy storage can't give armour penetration, nor is it going to boost damage in itself. The change that needs to come over that attribute is that it needs to become a better energy management skill so ele's can continue to cast throughout the battle and not burn themselves out (so to speak) after a few skills.
If the attribute isn't going to be reworked (as would take too much effort), the logical conclusion is to go with my suggestion (and that of others as well): make the attunements SKILLS!
With all the enchantment stripping that goes on in Guils vs Guild and even now in far too many PvE mobs, ele's are crippled by an inherent counter to them in the game itself. There's a fine line between balanced and beaten, and ANet's repeated nerf stick has crossed it. And with the appearance of Dervishes, those occasional original builds that make elementalists still worth playing are going to be completely useless as what they accomplish can be outdone by this new profession.
If serious buffing isn't done to the class (whether through new skills or revamping old ones), its going to continue a menial existence as a flagrunner/heal party spam/blindbot, bereft of any due glory.

Bruce Brutal · Aug 22, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

you know, i am verry strong with an elle in pve and pvp, and i stil use the same build, and you know i think the elle's wont die when nightfall is released, but your right about one thing, sometimes you have skils that dont even have the worth of having exhoustion... though i use fire magic, one of my favourits for elle and skils like meteor shower ok... exhoustion is agreable, meteor is fine to becouse it hase knock down bonus and fast recharge time, and you said that some skils need to recharge faste, meteor shower has 60 sec recharge i think thats agreable for a very strong skill, meteor has a pretty fast skil recharge, and i think thats worth of exhoustion, but now i'm only talking about 2 skils:P, 2 of my favourits though.. and its all how you put your own build together

and i wont think they will die, becouse there one of the strongest proffesions you can get

Verkinix · Aug 22, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I would personally like it if they would make a unique staff or offhand item that gives +energy regen pips at the cost of energy. Right now I have 71 energy at +4. I would gladly take a hit of 20 energy to have +2 regen by an offhand item or a rare staff. This doesnt just go for elem, but many other classes as well. As far as the class specifically, I use a combo of fire and earth magics. I have armors from earth which can be (if done right) almost as good as a warriors armor set. The real problems come in when there are mesmers in every PvE group that DE my buffs and it takes 30-60 seconds for them to come back. Far to many times I end up with no armor due to mesmers. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldnt just turn those slots into dmg dealers. However, when the mesmers are dealt with, I can keep my armors up until I run out of energy and against everything without armor piercing, I can hold my own indefinetly. I've only tested this build in PvE and not PvP. It may not be viable in PvP.

Anyway, that was my 2cents. I dont mind elem the way it is, but I have found favor with my necro who has less trouble overall in PvE then my elem. It's not a weak class or insufficient class, it just needs some better weapon types to go with it such as +regen at the cost of raw energy.

0mar · Aug 22, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_mamba

i dont know about you but my rit can solo UW

, i think that team 2 did a great job on making the rit personally.

No offense, but anything in PvE can be done just by rote memorization. In PvP, there is no such thing as a channeling rit or a healing rit. It's all simply Ritual Lord spam.

unmatchedfury · Aug 22, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Rits communing is the only thing rits do well. In order to come closer to monks and still not surpas them i think moving teh weapon spell cap up to 2 weapon spells would be excellent. This would allow basic weapon combos/ more strategy. While giveing resto a little more prot.

Align · Aug 22, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Even if Mind X didnt cause exhaustion, there'd still be no reason to bring any elite that isn't energy management.

Artisan · Aug 22, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Hey, I love my elementalist, I play him really well.

So if you want to make him more powerful, well, fine by me.

Minus Sign · Aug 22, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Step 1: Remove exhaustion from spells it has no business being on.

*claps* Bravo

Quote:

Step 2: Make Elemental Attunement, Air Attunement, Fire Attunement, Earth Attunement, and Water Attunement skills.

This i have certain concerns over. I would prefer to see them made into stances, so there is some counter beyond killing the ele.

Quote:

Step 3: Decrease cast times on the wards, some of the spells, and attunements.

Wards...i disagree with your solution. The longer cast time is there as a counter to the ward. Their only counter beyond AoE from an ele, making them too hot to stay in. I'd prefer to see small reductions in spell cost, uptime and recharge for wards, making them more playable in the certain situations you need them (however, this opens up spell spam concerns as well). That should also help you stay mobile with the new dervish frontline AoE spammers. many spells, however, do end up with 2 seperate costs--mana and castime/recycle--making the ele quite restricted on the surface. @Anet: pick one nerf or another; stop double nerfing ele skills and much of the complaining with fall to the wayside.

Quote:

Step 4: Rework Meteor Shower so it hits in the first second rather than the third.

I still maintain that the best way to handle multi-proc nuke is to have it follow target instead of a one time drop on the ground. This would solve many of the damage issues inherent to the ele class and make it more versitile in actively preventing cluster ganks. One of the only spells i don't think should be this way is actually your example: Meteor Shower. Your solution is inovative, but really only works for that specific spell.

Quote:

Step 5: Never, ever touch them again, otherwise the whole thing starts over again.

Which should never, ever happen. You know better Ristaron; skill balance exists both to keep the game (and its different characters) balanced with one another and also to make players proactive about seeking new skill combos and building their own character. i'd personally hate to see the ele revert into an IWAYesk nuker with one pre-build set of skills turning the entire PvP community against it.

By and large, though, QFT.

Sidenote: i welcome the Dervish to the metagame and hope that Anet is easier on the nerf bat than they were with the ele at the games inception. Other eles should as well. In the name of keeping classes balanced, Anet can't drop a character of the Dervishes' obvious power and versatility into the game and leave the ele as is. Doing so will not kill 'just another' secondary proffession that you can get with an expansion; it kills off a core proffession that you're supposed to get with every game. My point to this is speaking to the nay sayers--those people who insist that the Dervish may spell the doom of the Elementalist--and reminding them that if there ever were an FoTM class, its not one of the big 6.